“I know that if I call the cops, they’re not coming to protect me—even in moments when I need it.“ —David Johns, executive director, National Black Justice Coalition Since Mike Brown was killed by now former police officer Darren Wilson five years ago, the Ferguson Police Department hired a new police chief and the Department of Justice launched an investigation into the police department. But was that enough? On the fifth anniversary of Mike Brown’s killing, it’s worth asking—is police reform enough? Or should policing be abolished all together? In the clip above, David Johns, executive director of the National Black Justice Coalition; Chivona Newsome, co-founder of Black Lives Matter of Greater New York; and Elie Mystal, executive editor at Above the Law share their differing views on the issue. Watch the full conversation in the video below for more: